18. Legal Myths You Need to Know if You Have Employees with Alexis Tahinci
Also available on YouTube!
I’m excited to welcome our first attorney on The Impact Ripple podcast this week, Alexis Tahinci, of Tahinci Law Firm! Alexis is an employment law and civil rights attorney who works on behalf of employees who are filing claims against their employers.
While this may sound counterintuitive to some, what I find most powerful about this collaboration is that Alexis was able to share the most common complaints employees are bringing to her office to help us avoid creating the same issues in our own businesses.
Alexis also shared common employment law myths and issues that small businesses need to be aware of to protect themselves and ensure health and supportive workplace cultures.
One of the biggest myths we dispel is that small businesses aren’t subject to employment laws and what you need to know and be aware of to protect your business and build a team founded upon legal compliance and ethics.
We discuss a variety of common misconceptions, including the belief that employers can fire anyone without consequence in an "at will" state (and what that actually means). Alexis also clarifies the difference between legal and illegal terminations, protected classes, and she offers loads of valuable insight and clarity around some of the biggest offenses she’s seeing in her practice right now.
And of course, we explain what all of these things mean in layman’s terms so you know exactly what to know and watch out for in your business.
Finally, we wrap things up with some conversation around bringing humanity back to employment and leadership.
If you’re hiring employees or already have a team of employees, this is a can’t miss episode to ensure you’ve got your legal ducks in a row and are doing right by your team!
In this episode, you’ll learn:
The myths and misconceptions around at-will employment and right-to-work laws
The differences between federal and state laws that small business owners need to know when hiring employees across multiple states
Common employment law violations that small businesses should avoid
The importance of seeking legal advice when unsure about the nuances of the law
The value of bringing humanity back into the equation to avoid lawsuits and create a positive workplace culture
Mentioned in This Episode:
Tahinci Law Firm - https://tahincilaw.com/
Alexis on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/attorney_alexis
Alexis on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AttorneyAlexisTahinci
Transcription for Episode 18 - Legal Myths You Need to Know If You Have Employees with Alexis Tahinci
Ashley Cox 0:05
Welcome to The Impact Ripple podcast the go to source for hiring and leadership made simple, doable and fun for visionary female business owners. I'm your host, Ashley Cox, author, certified HR expert and founder of Sprout HR. And I believe that you don't have to change who you are to be a great leader because you already are one. Join me as we kiss uncertainty and overwhelm goodbye and say hello to the tools and support you need to grow a profitable, sustainable, impactful team with more confidence and ease.
Ashley Cox 0:43
On today's episode, I'm joined by attorney Alexis Tahinci of Tahinci Law. Alexis is an employment law and civil rights attorney based in my neighboring city of Kingsport, Tennessee. After working for two company side regional law firms and clerking for a federal judge, she launched Tahinci Law firm in 2022, and now primarily represents employees and individuals. Alexis is also a mom of a two year old and five year old, who keep her grounded and remind her to play, I just love that because play is so important and so good for all of us. I think you're gonna find a lot of value in my conversation with Alexis today because we are talking about all things legal when it comes to hiring and leading a team of employees. Alexis joins me to bust some common myths around employment law when it comes to small businesses, including what at-will employment really means the difference between at-will and right to work, bullying, and harassment in the workplace, and hostile work environments.
Ashley Cox 1:54
We also talk about the nuances between federal and state laws that small business owners really need to be aware of when hiring employees across multiple states, as well as what you need to know and pay attention to as a business with less than 50 employees. Finally, Alexis shares some of the biggest offenses and cases that employees are filing in her office that you'll want to be aware of as an employer so that you can avoid making the same mistakes and finding yourself on the wrong side of a lawsuit. We wrap our conversation up talking about how many lawsuits can be avoided by simply bringing humanity back into the equation. This episode is truly heartfelt and designed to get you thinking about how you can be the best employer for your team while also protecting your business. Now, here's my conversation with Alexis Tahinci.
Ashley Cox 2:50
Hey there and welcome to The Impact Ripple. Alexis, I'm so glad to have you joining me today.
Alexis Tahinci 2:55
Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Ashley Cox 2:57
Um, so for our listeners, Alexis and I recently met when I was looking to connect with some local employment law attorneys. And I work a lot with various employment law attorneys all across the US, but they're primarily on the employer side. So when I was searching for folks in my area here in East Tennessee, I came across her on LinkedIn, reached out to introduce myself, we have lunch, hit it off right away, right?
Alexis Tahinci 3:23
Yes, absolutely.
Ashley Cox 3:24
And it was just such a great connection. And what I really love the most about Alexis, and the work that she does, is that, you know, we can we can have several connections with employment, pull your side attorneys. But having that connection with the employee side of things is really, really special, because that's where we get to uncover critical information as employers on common issues that are cropping up in the business world that employees are facing so that we can know better, and do better by our people. So I'm so excited to have you here for this conversation today. I know that everybody's going to find so much value in this. So let's just dive right into it. Okay.
Alexis Tahinci 4:06
Okay. Sounds great.
Ashley Cox 4:07
Awesome. So, tell us a little bit about your career path, because I know you always haven't worked on the employee side, and how you came to be doing employment law and civil rights work on the individual side of things?
Alexis Tahinci 4:20
Yes, absolutely. So I actually started working for a fairly large law firm out of law school, and it was primarily a industry side or employer side law firm and I actually didn't start out doing employment law. I started out doing more education, law and general commercial litigation, and there are a lot of overlaps between education law and employment law, particularly in the discrimination and harassment realm of things. That was enjoyed those cases. And then I worked for a federal judge for about seven years. And employment law, as I'm sure you and your listeners know is very heavily statutory and heavily Federal. And so as a federal law clerk, I worked on a lot of employment law and civil rights cases. And I really enjoyed those cases, I really got to know the law very well. And I saw a big need in my area, there were not very many attorneys here who were representing employees and individuals in these cases, oftentimes, I would see the same small handful of attorneys who are coming from out of town to try these cases, because they're just not we're not a lot of lawyers in this area doing it. So I saw a need, I really always had a heart for social justice. And I really enjoy the human element of these cases. And so it just seemed like a great fit for me. So I decided to go out on my own and start my own law practice, which I did a little over a year ago, I just had my one year anniversary. And so far, it's been great, I've been able to help a lot of people.
Ashley Cox 5:51
Congratulations on your one year, I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited to be you know, exceeding this through your eyes, because one of the things that you do notice in our area is that we don't have a lot of attorneys who are able to represent on the employee side, but we have a lot of companies representing on the employer side. So I love that you identified that gap that need that you're helping the people in our community in our area. And when I say our area, what Alexis and I are referring to is southwest Virginia and northeast Tennessee. So if you're in that area, if you're local to us. That's where Alexis is, and she's literally just up the road from me. So we were able to have lunch together, which is so fun to meet our online business friends in person, right?
Alexis Tahinci 6:38
Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's so nice to have you here in this area. And I appreciate the work that you're doing as well, of course, from my side. You know, I love representing employees. But I certainly understand that the best counsel for employers is to avoid these issues to begin with. And so having somebody like you that they can turn to and make sure that they're doing the right thing in the first place is in everybody's best interest.
Ashley Cox 7:00
Yes. What we don't want is for you all who are listening to end up in court with Alexis, right, exactly. Nothing went wrong. That means I love that you bring that up, Alexis, because that's something that's really important to the work that we do here at Sprout HR is being proactive, acting as an educator acting as a resource for here's what to do. And here's what to avoid, so that you can limit your liability so that we can work with people in meaningful ways. And we're very much in alignment on our values, especially around social justice, especially around treating people the way that they deserve to be treated. And I think we're seeing a big shift in that, especially coming through the pandemic. And when the other side of that and people just are done. They're done with toxic workplaces. They're done with toxic employers. And so I love that this is the work that you're doing and being able to support people. So I'd love to know what, what's your favorite part about the work that you do?
Alexis Tahinci 8:01
Well, you know, it sounds really cliche, but I love being able to help people who have suffered from the consequences of discrimination and abuses of power. Oftentimes, people come to me and they really just cannot find anyone who can help them. And they feel powerless. And particularly in the workplace setting, you know, the employee often doesn't have a lot of power. And so feeling that they have somebody that they can turn to who can stand up for them is really rewarding for me, and my clients are just I found them to be so appreciative of the work that I do, which is so rewarding.
Ashley Cox 8:34
That just makes so much sense to me, you know, and I think that something that our clients worry about a lot is that power dynamic, that power struggle that can sometimes exist in the workplace, and not knowing sometimes where that line is not knowing, you know, how, how close can I get to that line where I'm, you know, still in charge, I'm setting expectations, I'm holding my team accountable, but I'm not crossing it to where now I'm in, you know, legal waters where I'm starting to tiptoe into protected areas, or I'm starting to tiptoe into, you know, discrimination or harassment, or some of these, you know, really big scary things that a lot of large corporations who have attorneys on staff have access to they have knowledge, they have training around and being a small business owner, you often don't have that access to the same thing, but we're changing that, right. We're bringing it.
Alexis Tahinci 9:28
Yes, exactly.
Ashley Cox 9:30
I love it. So what would you say is the hardest or maybe the most challenging part of your job?
Alexis Tahinci 9:36
I think the hardest part is when I have to tell somebody that they don't have a case that's viable in the court sense. A lot of times people come to me and they've really been mistreated and then they're suffering and they've had a difficult go of it, but they're not they weren't mistreated for a reason that's illegal. And unfortunately, you know, most states and particularly the states that I practice, and there is no general a workplace bullying law, you know, unless they were mistreated because of their membership in a protected class or because of, you know, retaliation for whistleblowing or something like that. Sometimes there's just not a lot that we can do within the legal system. And that's always hard because people come to me for help. And sometimes there's just not a whole lot that I can do to help them, unfortunately. But I tried to look at it as at least if I've given them that analysis that maybe helps them to get a little bit of closure and move on.
Ashley Cox 10:28
That's so important to understand, I think as an employer that not everything is considered protected, or is considered, you know, something that an employee can come back and get some sort of justification or closure or legal action around. And I think that really leads beautifully into our next question, something I wanted to talk about, because there are a lot of myths around employment law that exist, right?
Alexis Tahinci 10:55
Absolutely, yes.
Ashley Cox 10:56
And I feel like that's one of them that, you know, on the employee side of things, you don't always have a case. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about that myth, and what that actually looks like. So if you're, you know, as a leader in a small business, and one of your employees comes to you and says, I'm being harassed, I'm being bullied, what are the things that they need to know? And what is kind of some of the myths that people believe about harassment and bullying in the workplace?
Alexis Tahinci 11:24
Right, so I hear the term hostile environment thrown around a lot. And I think that that phrase really gets overused. Unfortunately, a hostile work environment is only actionable if it is based on a protected class. So if it is race-based harassment or sex-based harassment, or if it's based on any number of protected classes, natural national origin, excuse me, or religion, or something of that sort, but if somebody just doesn't like you, and is being really mean to you, unfortunately, that is just not actionable under the law. And so oftentimes, people will come to me and say, I'm experiencing a hostile work environment, I want to file a lawsuit. And that's not always an option. Because, you know, sometimes people are just awful to each other. I hate to say that, and that it's just sort of human nature. And I wish it weren't that way. But just because somebody is being really mean to you doesn't necessarily mean that you have a lawsuit against them. And the other thing about a hostile work environment is that it can be kind of a hard burden to prove in court. So, you know, the courts have said that a few offhand remarks, a few clashes here, and there probably aren't enough to make out a hostile work environment, it really has to be a severe or pervasive situation. So there have to be ongoing incidents that are making things really bad in an ongoing way. Or it can be one circumstance, but it has to be really bad. If it's one on one situation, it's got to be a really bad situation, to rise to the level of a hostile work environment.
Ashley Cox 13:05
Yeah. So, unfortunately, bullying is okay, as long as it's not around a protected class.
Alexis Tahinci 13:12
Right. And, you know, based on your HR work and what you do, I mean, I would say, for employers, the key here is that if you want to keep a workforce, if you want to keep a happy workforce, you still want to, you still want to correct those situations, even though somebody is not necessarily going to sue you. And you know, sometimes employees don't necessarily understand their rights, and they may still go and file something with the EEOC or with their State Human Rights Commission, because they think they have a claim, even if they don't, and then you still have to defend against that. So it's really always in everybody's best interest to take those situations seriously, even if they're not legally actionable.
Ashley Cox 13:49
Absolutely, absolutely. And some of the things that an employer can do in that type of situation are - what kind of actions could they take?
Alexis Tahinci 13:58
Well, I think it's important not just to have policies against harassment, but to really take them seriously. If an employee comes to you and complains about something. Really listen, you know, sometimes people just want to feel heard and understood. So really listening and treating the situation with empathy is important. You know, as an HR consultant, I'm sure that you have all kinds of thoughts about counseling employees and separating people as necessary. And all of that there, there are steps that you can take depending on the situation, but I would encourage employers to really take any kind of complaints of a hostile environment seriously, even if it might not be actionable under the law.
Ashley Cox 14:37
I agree wholeheartedly. I think one of the things that we underestimate as leaders is the power in just listening to our people. Yes, helping them feel like they have an opportunity to be heard, to share their voice to be frustrated to be mad. It's okay. These emotions are normal. They are natural, they're going to happen. And especially if you have personality conflicts in the workplace, everybody is not going to like everybody, and that's okay. But we need to be able to express those feelings express those concerns have a safe place to be able to go and talk to our, our leadership and say, You know what, I'm feeling really uncomfortable in the situation, or I don't like the way that so and so is speaking to me, I need some support. And so you know, you I think you've hit the nail on the head for what we talk about a lot at Sprout HR around our values is we're listening, we're creating that open door policy, you know, like, you can come to me with anything, and then actually doing something about it. And sometimes that's counseling the employee, sometimes that's maybe talking about how to handle conflict resolution. And we were just recorded an episode with Anna Nielsen all about how to build your conflict capabilities, which I think ties in perfectly to this as well. Yeah. Love it. So what are some other common myths? You know, I think one of the things that comes up a lot in conversations with business owners, is that, you know, we're in an at will state so I can fire anybody. employment laws don't apply to me. You know, like, I'm just kind of out here being a small business, things don't actually apply to me as a small business owner. Is that true?
Alexis Tahinci 16:25
Oh, my gosh, no, it is not true. And it's a very common myth. It comes up all the time I see it on on Facebook and social media channels, somebody will post a question about wrongful termination. And all these people will chime in and say, Well, it's an apple stay, you don't have a claim at will employment means that your employer can terminate you for a good reason or a bad reason, or for no reason. But the caveat is that your employer cannot terminate you for an illegal reason. And that's a big caveat. That's a really big carve outs. So that you know, your employer cannot terminate you because of your membership in a protected class. So protected classes include your race, national origin, color, gender, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, religion, age, I mean, there are a number of them genetic information, caretaker status, there are a lot of reasons that your employer cannot terminate you. So just because you're in an at will state does not mean that an employer has a free license to terminate anyone at any time for any reason. Another big caveat is whistleblower termination. So if an employee has opposed illegal conduct, or made a complaint about a good face complaint about something that they believe to be a violation of the law, either internally or externally, the employer cannot retaliate against the employee for doing that. And so if an employer terminates somebody after they've made such a complaint, or after they have refused to do something that they think is illegal, then that act will implement is not going to save an employer from a claim in that situation.
Ashley Cox 18:08
I think there's just so much nuance to the law, that in these cases, when you're unsure, that's that's one of those situations, when in doubt, reach out, right.
Alexis Tahinci 18:19
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. If you're not sure, talk to an attorney, talk to an HR consultant. Because there really is a lot of nuance. The other thing about at will employment that I hear often is that people get confused with right to work. So I'll hear a lot of people say, Oh, I live in a right to work state so I can fire you for any reason. Well, right to work does not mean the same thing is that will employment, right to work is a phrase that pertains to union membership, mandatory union membership. So I don't know how those two back conflated but people misuse that phrase all the time and right to work probably does that mean what you think it means?
Ashley Cox 18:55
Right? Yes, exactly. And do small businesses have to worry about right to work? Is that something that's even, you know, when we're talking specifically 50 employees or less 25 employees or less somebody that has two or three or five employees, you know, is right to work, something that is prevalent in that, that size of a company?
Alexis Tahinci 19:16
Yeah, well, right to work as a concept means that employees cannot be forced to join a union. So that concept is really specific to the labor law union context. So it's not something that probably comes up all that often for small employers, small employers usually are not unionized. Presumably they could be but they're, you know, I'm not really an expert in the labor law union side of things. And that's a little bit of a different area. But I will say that small employers do or they are subject to employment laws. And the threshold for when they're subject to those laws really varies a lot. So under federal discrimination laws, typically employers are covered if they have At least 15 employees, I believe it's 20 employees for age discrimination that was a little bit different. And there are other laws that kick in when you get more employees. So for instance, the FMLA becomes an issue whenever you have 50 or more employees. But just because you're not necessarily covered under federal law does not mean that you have no obligations under state law. So some states have their own discrimination and harassment laws that kick in with a lower number employee. So for instance, in Tennessee, the Tennessee Human Rights Commission, and the Tennessee employment laws kick in when an employer has at least eight employees. In Virginia, it's six employees. So you really need to know your state laws don't just rely on the federal law. And there are certain laws that come into play, regardless of the number of employees you have. So a good example of that would be wage and hour laws, you have obligations to pay your employees according to wage and hour laws, regardless of how many employees you have. If you have an employee and you owe them overtime, you've got to pay them overtime, it doesn't matter if they're your only employee.
Ashley Cox 21:04
Yes, I think that's such a great point. And something else to even consider in that is that wage and hour laws aren't just dictated by the federal government, right? So federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, but we have many states and even many counties and local, municipal municipalities, I'll get the word out in a minute, that have a different wage and hour law. So employers who are like, okay, the federal minimum wage is $7.25. My state is $10.50 an hour and you know, my county is $12 an hour, like what do I follow?
Alexis Tahinci 21:40
Well, what typically governs is where the employee is actually doing the work. And so this comes up a lot in the post-COVID remote workplace situation, if you've got remote workers all over the country, you need to follow the wage and hour laws that apply where the worker is located typically. So you know, if you're in Tennessee, but you've got an employee who's working from home in Kentucky, you need to follow the Kentucky laws, because that will govern that employee. So that is something to really be cautious of if you've got a remote workforce in particular.
Ashley Cox 22:16
Yes, and this is something we talk about a lot at Sprout HR, because everybody thinks "oh, I can hire anyone anywhere." But there's a lot that goes into hiring across multiple states, multiple counties, even you know, we have a lot of clients in Illinois, and they have the Illinois state law, but then they have specific laws for Chicago and specific laws for Cook County in Chicago. And so you know, it's it's you may be located in let's say, Cook County, you know, Illinois, but your employee may work in a different county. And so you have to look at the difference in even within your own state.
Alexis Tahinci 22:53
Right. And this matters, not just for a minimum wage, but also for tax withholding. So you've got to be careful about that to make sure you understand the law where your employees are as far as what taxes need to be withheld, and where those need to be remitted.
Ashley Cox 23:07
Yes, and the same thing with some other laws that have been coming up. And I know laws are ever-changing, and sometimes hard to get going on. One of the laws I know that we talk a lot about is the sick leave law. And this has really started to sweep the nation recently, where sick leave never really was a big thing that people had to pay attention to. But now they're starting to implement sick leave laws in various states and counties and municipalities that you really have to pay attention to if you have employees in those areas. So talk to us about some of the ever-changing laws like what are you seeing? That's coming up?
Alexis Tahinci 23:46
Yeah, yeah. So regarding sick leave laws, I will just say and I'm sure you advise your your folks on this as well. But, you know, some states require sick leave to be paid out upon termination, others do not. So that's something that you want to look into. They're generally speaking in the states where I practice sick leave sick leave is not typically required by law. But for some employers, that is for some, you know, government employers, for instance, sick leave is a requirement. So you do want to look at that very carefully. A couple of changes that I have seen recently are severance agreements. The National Labor Relations Board has just put out a recent ruling on severance agreements, and the NLRB held that severance agreements offered to employees cannot include confidentiality and non disclosure and non disparagement provisions. And the reason for that is that the NLRB has found that those violate the National Labor Relations Act, which allows employees to engage in what's called concerted activity. So if you are preventing employees from talking to one another about their wages about the conditions of their employment That is a violation of federal law. And so this recent decision about severance agreements in particular from the NLRB has really been getting a lot of buzz in my community in the employment law community. Because you know, most employers when they offer severance agreements do include those non disparagement and confidentiality provisions. So that is something that that you need to be really keyed into going forward. non compete agreements are another big one, the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission has proposed a rule to ban those across the board. And that rule is not finalized yet. The FTC is considering public comments right now, I think, until the end of next month, and then they'll decide whether to adopt that rule formally. But that's something that's on the horizon. So if you're offering non compete agreements, you need to be really careful about those.
Ashley Cox 25:47
Yes. And just so our listeners know, we are recording this on March 16 2023. So when you get a hold of this later, making sure that you are following the current law and not just taking what we're saying today as the only legal advice you need.
Ashley Cox 26:03
Correct. That is a very important disclaimer, yes, because the law really does change all the time it is ever developing.
Ashley Cox 26:09
Yes, yes. And that's and I think that's sometimes the scary part, right, of having employees of being a small business owner is, how do I know what's changing? Where are? Where are some good resources that maybe our small business owners could tap into and know, this is what's impacting me? This is where I need to be really watching out?
Alexis Tahinci 26:30
Yeah, well, you probably advise your clients about this anyway. But SHRM is a really good research for employers, the Society for Human Resource Management, I believe is what that stands for SHRM, they have a great website that has articles on a lot of developments in the law, that's not going to be state specific, that's more of a nationwide resource, but that's a great place to start. And then a lot of employer side employment attorneys and law firms put out alerts to their clients. So if you haven't consulted an employment law attorney, it would be a good idea to do that. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to pay a bunch of money to have them on retainer all the time. But even if you just kind of get on their mailing list, a lot of times they will send out alerts or newsletters, sometimes they will host conferences and training sessions for their employer clients to kind of keep them up to date on the law in their state. So if you haven't consulted with an attorney, yet, it's probably a good idea to find someone in your area in your state who can advise you.
Ashley Cox 27:31
Yes, I agree. 100%. And I think if you're going to be hiring employees, one of the most important things that you can do is to have an HR person on your team to have an attorney on your team to have a financial expert. I think that's really the the foundational pieces of having a legally protected and sustainable business that you can be proactive, you can get the information you need before it's too late.
Alexis Tahinci 27:59
Absolutely. Because you don't want to just rely on googling. I know a lot of folks who I talked to who are like, Oh, well, on the internet, I saw that it said, you know, it's a right to work state or whatever the case may be. And I mean, this area of the law really does include a lot of nuance. So you don't want to just rely on whatever you found in a Google search. You really want to talk to an expert.
Ashley Cox 28:21
Yes, yes. Because that that particular law firm or that particular organization that is sharing information may specifically be for businesses that have more than 50 employees, it may be for businesses that are format for mail formulated, formatted. I don't know one of those words, formatted formatted differently than yours. Boy, that was a really hard sentence there. But we're keeping it real over here, right? But make sure that the nuance and the specificity of your business is taken into account how many employees you have, if they're full time, if they're part time, do you have tractors? Are they across multiple states? There's so much nuance that really comes into does this apply to you? And if yes, how does it apply to you?
Alexis Tahinci 29:06
Yes, absolutely. And also, if you're just looking online, you might find outdated information. I mean, that happens a lot people will read an article that's from 10 years ago, and it's just not accurate anymore. So you really want to talk with somebody who's an expert in this particular area of the law, who's kind of keeping up with things as they change.
Ashley Cox 29:22
Yeah, and this is something that we work with, again, you know, with a lot of our one on one clients is if we're working on a project together, and we're putting together you know, a process or a structure or some some policies, it may be something that I say, Okay, this would be a really great area to talk to your employment law attorney, because I'm not an attorney. I'm not an expert in that particular state or that particular law. And so I know a lot of employment law. It's something we work with all the time, and there are experts that you do need to consult with so even if we're working together, I might say okay, you need to talk to your CPA about this. You need to talk to your attorney about this Uh, and even sometimes, you know, I'll get on the on the call with them so that you don't have to be the go between because I know that sometimes the language can be a little difficult, right? It can be yes. I don't know, the right questions to ask, I don't know how to explain the situation. Whereas we can kind of cut that middleman out so to say, and really get you to the point where you you get the information you need, so that you can just keep moving down the road doing the thing you're great at. Yeah, that's great. Love that. So So since you do work on the employee side of employment law, what are some of the big offenders that that you're seeing are the big offenses that you're seeing come into your office these days?
Alexis Tahinci 30:38
Yeah, you know, wage cases are big. We talked about how important it is to pay people appropriately. And I see a lot of cases where employers have misclassified employees. So either they have classified someone as an independent contractor when they really shouldn't be an employee, or they have classified them as an exempt, salaried employee when they really are not exempt under the law. And because of those misclassifications, the employer may have failed to pay overtime, for instance, or it may have failed to remit taxes on behalf of this employee. So that's always a big one, make sure you really understand who is an employee who's an independent contractor who is exempt, you want to make sure that you're doing all that right. Another one on the wage side that comes up and kind of catches employers off guard sometimes is deductions from wages. So for instance, and there are a lot of rules around this. But for instance, salaried employees, if they are out of leave of paid leave, and they take a half a day off to go to the doctor. If they have worked to half a day, you cannot deduct anything from their pay for that half day absence, you cannot deduct for partial day absences for salaried employees. You also cannot deduct amounts for a short cash register or broken equipment from an employee's pay unless they have signed an agreement for that ahead of time. So this is something that employers do a lot. You know, they'll say, Well, you broke my whatever my computer or cash register or something, I'm just going to take it out of your paycheck. Can I do that? That is not legal. So wage cases, I'll tell you the number one way to get an employee of yours into an employment lawyer's office is to not pay them right. People are very serious about their pay. Yeah. And they want to be right.
Ashley Cox 32:32
Like you signed up to do this job and get this wage, and they deserve the money that that they are owed, whether or not they're doing the best job, because that's when us as the leaders to make sure that they're trained properly, that they have the tools and resources they need to do their job that they're being, you know, brought along on this journey by us as the business owner as the leader. And we, you know, we have to do our part and being responsible and complying with the law, as well as making sure that we're coaching and teaching and training and providing the tools and resources they need to be successful.
Alexis Tahinci 33:07
Yes, yes. And you can't retroactively reduce somebody's pay, even if you're paying them over minimum wage, if you think they didn't do a good job, can't go back and reduce their pay for work. But they already did. So please, don't ever do that. Yeah, a couple of other things that come up a lot. Retaliation cases are big. So if somebody has made a complaint about a violation of the law, even if you think that complaint is is hogwash, there's nothing there. If they've made a complaint, and they made that complaint in good faith, and you turn around and terminate them, there's some very good chance that you're gonna have a claim on your hands. So retaliation cases, whistleblower cases, those are those are big ones. And then another one that I see coming up a good bit lately is leave as an accommodation for a disability. And this one also catches people off guard. So if you are an employer who does not have 50 employees, and so maybe the FMLA does not apply to you, or you have an employee who hasn't worked for you long enough to be covered by the FMLA. Or maybe they've even used all of their FMLA leave, but they have a disability, and they need a certain defined amount of additional leave. So maybe they are recovering from some sort of major surgery, and they need two weeks off to do that. Even if they don't have any paid sick leave under your policies. You have to if that's a reasonable accommodation, and it's not going to pose an unreasonable hardship on the employer, the employer has to give them that accommodation. So that kind of catches people sometimes because employers will think Well, I'm not I don't have to abide by the aid the FMLA and we don't have, you know, paid sick leave. So if they can't come to work, they're fired. That that's just not acceptable. If you can give somebody a little bit of extra leave, even if it's unpaid because they need that time to heal from surgery or an injury or they need to seek treatment for some disability, you've gotta give them that time. Oh, I'm sorry, go right ahead.
Ashley Cox 35:06
I was just gonna say how would an employer know what an undue or an unreasonable accommodation would be for them? If that creates that hardship?
Alexis Tahinci 35:15
Yeah. So I mean, it's a subjective test to some extent, and you do have an obligation as an employer to engage in what's called the interactive process under the ADEA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. So you can go back and forth with the employee and figure out okay, what can we reasonably offer you that is not going to negatively affect our business, that's not going to be too burdensome for us. And it is sort of a it's a fuzzy area, it's a gray zone, you know, what is an undue burden? I mean, sometimes accommodations are a burden. But is it a burden that you as your business can put up with something that you can accommodate? Or is it something that's going to really be so resource intensive for you that it doesn't really make sense, I would, that's an area where I would absolutely consult an employment attorney, if you have an employee with a disability who is requesting any sort of accommodation, and they don't have to go through a formal accommodation request process for that either. If you know that they have a disability, and they've made it known to you that they need something from you, that's enough, doesn't matter if they haven't filled out the right form. If they've asked you for something that is based on their their disability, then you've got to engage in that interactive process with them to try to figure out how you can help them.
Ashley Cox 36:31
And they also don't have to use the words, I need a reasonable accommodation. And I think that exact kind of another one of those myths, I don't know where this comes from. But people all of a sudden started believing Well, if they don't say I need a reasonable accommodation, then I'm off the hook, but you're not. If you have the knowledge of the disability of the need for something outside of whatever you originally agreed to as their work accommodation, or their schedule, or physical location or whatever, then that needs to be something that you take very seriously and, and that you work with that one. And like you said, I love the part, you know, the interactive process. That's, that says it all to me, right? The interactive process means that you and I are working together, we're collaborating on figuring out what's the best option for both of us to move forward. And so that means compromise, right? You could do this, I do this, we move down the road together. But absolutely, I agree, you know, it's so important to make sure that you are legally protecting yourself, your business and that you're taking care of that person. And I think at the end of the day, when we take care of our people, we really make much better decisions. When we insist on the person that's sitting in front of us, you know, and I know a lot of times, you know, we talk about human resources, we talk about HR, but we don't really think that human part of human resources, right, it's bringing the humanity back into leadership into business ownership into interactivity into engagement. And I think that's really at the end of the day, what we're talking about, right?
Alexis Tahinci 38:06
Absolutely. And I think it's important for employers to remember too, that, you know, you're not just following the law in these situations and avoiding a lawsuit, you're also building loyalty with your employees. So you know, if you do the right thing for an employee, let's say you have an employee who needs an extra two weeks of leave to heal from some injury, you know, they're going to be so much more grateful to you and loyal to you when they come back from that and still have their job. And you don't have to spend the money on replacing them, which as we all know, replacing an employee is an expensive prospect. So it's really a win win all around, I don't want to give employers the impression that they need to be just checking off the boxes of the law. There are much bigger benefits to doing things the right way for both the employer and the employee.
Ashley Cox 38:55
Absolutely. And that's where that empathy, that compassion that humanity really comes into play and thinking about if I was in this situation, as an employee, how would I want my boss? Or how would I want my my business owner or my leader to treat me? I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in checking the boxes and what's right and what's wrong, and what are my options that we forget that it's just a real human on the other side of the conversation? Let's get curious. Let's ask questions. Let's show that compassion and really say, Okay, I know we can work this out. You're an amazing employee, you always show up to work, you always do a great job. You're always, you know, great with our customers. You're an awesome team member. How would I want to be treated if I were showing up as a high performing employee or even if I was showing up and doing just my job because not everybody has to be high performer. Some people are just amazing because they show up and they do the job that they're asked to do and they go home at night. That's all right. employee rights rights. Exactly. So I think that really, you know, brings our conversation to a beautiful close, because at the end of the day, employment law is important, we do have a responsibility as business owners to know what the expectations are to understand what our role is, and, and to be acting in compassionate and empathetic ways with our employees. And if we do those things, if we really think about the employee that is sitting in front of us who's asking, What can we do? If we're really thinking through, how do we take care of them, then nine times out of 10, you're going to make the right decision?
Alexis Tahinci 40:32
Yeah, I think that's right. That's right.
Ashley Cox 40:35
So it's time for our final segment of the show, which is my favorite. And I think it's quickly becoming a favorite of everyone who's tuning in regularly. It's called Imagine the impact. And this is where we get to envision what it could look like for us to take action today. And so Alexis, I'd love for you to help paint the vision for our listeners of the kind of impact they could create with one key thought or takeaway, or action item from our conversation today?
Alexis Tahinci 41:05
Yeah, well, I think it's a great segue from what you were just saying, which is that I would like employers to remember that most workers spend more of their waking hours at work than anywhere else. And so, you know, employers need to remember that employees really are people. And I would love to see a workplace a world where we're a great workplace provides an incredible sense of purpose, a great sense of belonging for employees. And all of that is possible. There are wonderful workplaces out there, where the workplace really does feel like a family, and people are really getting a lot out of working beyond just their salary, their monetary compensation, which as we all know, we need. But I'd love to see a world where employees are encouraged to bring their whole selves to work. And you know, where the focus is on inclusion and fair compensation, and really treating workers like people rather than just productivity machines. I think that it's really important for employers to show their workers, that they are valued and respected. And I think if more employers did that, and took that approach, that the world would be a much happier place.
Ashley Cox 42:18
I agree wholeheartedly. And, you know, I just want you all to imagine the impact that treating our team members, our employees, our workers, as whole humans could have on your business, on your community and in the world. So Alexis, tell us, where is the best place for folks to connect with you follow you and learn more?
Alexis Tahinci 42:40
Yeah. So my website for my firm is TahinciLaw.com. It's t-a-h-i-n-c-i-l-a-w dot com. And I am on Instagram at @attorney_alexis. And on Facebook, it's at Attorney Alexis Tahinci.
Ashley Cox 42:59
And we will put all of that in the shownotes for you all so you can just click the links and go connect with Alexis. She does some really amazing content. She creates these wonderful reels. And I think following someone who's working on the employee side of employment law could be incredibly valuable for you to just be aware of what's going on? What are some of the common concerns or complaints that are being brought forth? What are the resolutions that are happening? Alexis shares so much great information behind the scenes, that it would be invaluable for you to follow as an employer. So thank you so much for joining us on the impact rebel podcast today. Alexis, this has been so enlightening and incredibly educational and helpful.
Alexis Tahinci 43:39
Oh, well, thank you so much, Ashley. I really appreciate you inviting me on and it was great talking to you.
Ashley Cox 43:43
Absolutely. And thank you, dear leaders for tuning into our conversation today. I hope that you found it insightful, informative and valuable so that you can go out there and just do your best job taking care of your people. And as always, it's an honor and a privilege to be here with and for you on your leadership journey.
