15. Increasing Hope and Mental Wellness on Your Team with Lindsay Recknell
Also available on YouTube!
In this episode of the Impact Ripple Podcast, I’m thrilled to bring you our very first guest expert!
I invited my dear friend, certified psychological health and safety advisor and expert in hope, Lindsay Recknell, to join me for a powerful conversation around the science of positive psychology and how it can be used to empower leaders and strengthen teams.
Lindsay shares her journey of discovering the science of positive psychology, which helped her regain her hope, and do the work she does today.
Together, we explore the differences between hope and optimism, whether hope is something we’re born with or not, and how to develop greater hope as a leader.
She offers up suggestions for taking action and implementing strategies to build hope, rather than passively waiting for things to happen.
But you don’t have to be an expert in hope to get started!
Lindsays recommends that focusing on your progress towards goals, rather than big, overwhelming goals, can be more motivating. She recommends starting small to build confidence and increase your hopefulness.
Hope isn’t just for leaders, though! It’s also important to foster a sense of hope in the workplace and with our teams, especially when it comes to mental health.
Since mental health can be a complicated topic that many leaders haven’t been taught about, it's important to give yourself grace and recognize that there is a learning curve to understanding it all.
So we dove into a conversation around the differences between mental health, mental wellness, and mental illness (which you absolutely don’t want to miss if you’re a leader!).
As leaders, we may not always get it perfect (or even right), but it’s critical that we model the behaviors we want to encourage for others and have a common language to understand and integrate hope into our lives.
By building self-awareness, we can recognize our own lens and align our behavior with our values to create a hopeful workplace.
I can’t wait for you to tune into this powerful and jam-packed conversation with the incredible Lindsay Recknell!
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why hope and optimism aren’t the same thing
Strategies to develop greater hope as a leader and with your team
The difference between mental health, mental wellness, and mental illness
Aligning our behavior with our values to create a hopeful workplace
Mentioned in This Episode:
Transcription for Episode 15 - Increasing Hope and Mental Wellness on Your Team with Lindsay Recknell
Ashley Cox 0:05
Welcome to the impact ripple podcast. The go to source for hiring and leadership needs simple, doable and fun for visionary female business owners. I'm your host, Ashley Cox, author, certified HR expert and founder of sprout HR. And I believe that you don't have to change who you are to be a great leader because you already are one. Join me as we kiss uncertainty and overwhelm goodbye and say hello to the tools and support you need to grow a profitable, sustainable, impactful team with more confidence and ease.
Ashley Cox 0:43
On today's episode, I am thrilled to be joined by our very first guest, Lindsay fractional, as an expert in hope. Yes, that is a real thing. And a certified psychological health and safety adviser. Lindsay works with individuals and organizations to increase their levels of psychological health and safety in the workplace, using positive psychology and the science of hope. She empowers individuals, strengthens teams and transforms organizations through her mental health skills training certificate program, language of mental health, digital subscription, and wellness webinars. Lindsay lives in Calgary, Canada with her husband and their two adorable Golden Retrievers, squeak, and Dennis, who I'm a super big fan of.
Ashley Cox 1:35
During our conversation, Lindsay and I discussed what hope is, how it differs from optimism, and how to develop greater hope as a leader, both for yourself and with your team. We also explore the differences between mental health, mental wellness, and mental illness. And I promise you as a leader, you are not going to want to miss this part of the conversation. So I can't wait for you to hear all of the brilliance and well hope that Lindsay has to share. So here's our conversation.
Ashley Cox 2:11
Well, hey there, Lindsey, I'm so excited to welcome you to the impact rebel podcast. This is a big milestone for us. You are our very first guest joining the show.
Lindsay Recknell 2:24
So well, I feel so honored to be your first guest. And thank you so much. I mean, you're one of my favorite people on the planet. So it's my absolute pleasure to be here.
Ashley Cox 2:32
Ah, the feeling is mutual. And you very much were an intentional choice for us to have as a first guest, not just because of the incredible work that you do, which we're going to talk about today. But also because you are one of my dearest friends and just someone that I look up to and admire so much as a fellow businesswoman, and just as a human in this world. So it is such an honor to have you here with us today.
Lindsay Recknell 2:59
Thank you so so much. I'm just so proud you use the language of imperfect action earlier, which I just love. Because I'm so proud of you for doing this podcast, which feels like it's pretty perfect. So I'm super honored to be here as your first guest episode.
Ashley Cox 3:14
Well, thank you. Yes, Lindsay and I were talking before the show - before we hit record. And I was saying, Listen, we are not podcast experts over here. We are not editing experts, we are just keeping it real. And we're taking imperfect action. And I feel like that's something that's super aligned with your world and the work that you do. So go ahead and tell us a little bit about what a hope expert is. And how you came to be doing this incredible work, Lindsay?
Lindsay Recknell 3:42
Oh, thank you. I mean, I can talk about hope and positive psychology till the cows come home. So she's given me this soapbox opportunity to do so. So I I recognize that I got my hope back the day I recognize that I'd lost it in the first place. And I like to think that I'm a pretty self aware kind of, you know, intelligent human being. And I remember this moment, totally innocuous moment, standing up. The HA this is pretty cool. And then like, because how did I not know how did I not recognize that? I'd lost my zest for the future. And that's sort of what I at the time without knowing what I know now but that's sort of what I intuited that hope was that I had got my expectation of a future of a positive future back but not realizing that I was just going through the motions, just status quo, you know, working, getting groceries, putting on pants, all the things that we have to do as adults. But I was I was just it was it was just status quo. And typically, I'm more like a triple A personality where I am super goal driven. I am super I action oriented and all of these things. And so, my, my response to this feeling of, okay, I've got this back, but how the heck did I lose it in the first place was to read lifelong learning is my number one value in life. And I needed to figure out how I could stop or how can I prevent myself from getting back into this place. And so that's where I found the science of positive psychology. And within the science of positive psychology is a field of science, specifically called The Science of hope. And I learned that there was a cognitive process in the brain, and all of this research and science to backup sort of what we intuitively know, I felt so validated, like, you know, just, I just, I think hope has a PR problem, and I aim to solve it.
Ashley Cox 5:51
And that hope has a PR problem people.
Lindsay Recknell 5:55
Well, and because most often, I feel like people think like I do about hope, or like I did, it was just, you know, intuitive, bubbly, often associated with spirituality and religion and cosmic woowoo in some cases, and all of that is totally valid. But there's also this other piece over here, where science has proved that it can work in a really positive way in our brain leading to human flourishing. And as a analyst and data geek, it just appealed to that analytical side of my brain. And now, I want everybody who also thinks that way to recognize the power and to use it in their own life.
Ashley Cox 6:39
I love this so much, there's so many nuggets here. And if you are watching the video of our conversation, wherever we've posted it online, we'll figure that out later and tell you, but there were I was taking some notes while Lindsay was talking. And there's a couple of things that I want to call out. And I love the phrase, not because it's a wonderful, beautiful phrase, but because it feels so resonant, I lost my zest for the future. I feel like that is something you can just if you've lost your zest before you feel that in your soul, right? And that you were just kind of going with the status quo, you were doing the things that you thought that you should be doing as a grownup adult person. Like I'm trying to be a good adult here. But when you found that there was true science behind hope, and that it wasn't something so nebulous, but it was actually something you get your arms around, that feels like that, in and of itself. This may seem super meta, but that inspired hope.
Lindsay Recknell 7:43
Like legit, that is the definition of hope.
Ashley Cox 7:48
So what is the definition of hope? Tell us what hope is? And how do we know if we've got it or not
Lindsay Recknell 7:54
Yeah, so I mean, like many things, the definition of hope is very personal to all of us. depending on you know, how deep a scientist you are, or all the way you know, the other side of the spectrum to how closely tied you are to the language of hope, as part of your religion. And everything in between. The definition that I've come up with or through this work is that the future will be better than today. When we take action over the things we can control. And the key words in there, for me are future action control. And that definition comes from a lot of the research and science that I've come across, especially the work of a late scientist called Dr. Rick Snyder, he comes he first introduced hope theory, which is the idea of goals, plus agency thinking which which is our intrinsic motivation, plus pathways thinking, which is our critical thinking skills to overcome the barriers and obstacles that are gonna get in the way. And why I really liked hope theory and why it ties in nicely to my definition is it's that action piece, that agency, do the thing goals, control, focusing on what we can control and kind of letting the rest of it take care of itself. And that zest for the future, that expectation that it's going to be okay, as long as we're doing the things to help us get there. I believe there's a difference between an optimist and a hopeful person. And it's that action piece. That's the difference there for me.
Ashley Cox 9:33
Oh, I'd love to hear more. I've actually heard you talk about this, but I want to make sure that our listeners get an opportunity to hear you talk about this differentiation between hope and optimism because I think those things are often confused is that would that be a correct assumption?
Lindsay Recknell 9:48
Yeah, well and I think that they're often used interchangeably and I believe that they have a have a nuanced I don't I don't even think it's a slight nuance. If you think about winning the lotto. an optimistic person will believe that they're going to win the lotto a hopeful person who will buy a ticket. Yes, Prince, there's that action. So they're not mutually exclusive. So a hopeful person is often optimistic because they have that desire and that expectation that the future is going to be good. But an optimistic person may just believe it to be like, everything's gonna work out, okay, it's all going to be good, it's gonna work out the way that it's supposed to. But maybe you aren't doing the things to help out the universe to get you to that hopeful place, you know, and so, a hopeful person takes that action and that action piece takes control of the things they can control to move them towards that hopeful future, which will change Goal, goal theory, right, will will change based on the actions that you take, but the hopeful person will keep taking those action to get them to that place where, yeah, their future is better than today.
Ashley Cox 11:02
So interesting. And I love this topic of conversation, because I feel like there are a lot of optimistic people in this world. And they're not taking action towards the things that they truly desire. And since our listeners are small business owners, primarily women with small teams that are hiring or leading these teams of, you know, one or 10, or 25, people, I feel like this is something really important to how we do our work. And we take action, and we move forward. And I would almost make the assumption that the business owners themselves might be more hopeful. Versus optimistic, because they're the ones taking action every day consistently building this business, would that be a good assumption.
Lindsay Recknell 11:50
So I would say that the, the fabulous humans listening to your podcast are probably quite hopeful, because they are taking action to learn, they are taking action to grow, I don't think we can make the broad based assumption that business owners are necessarily hopeful or optimistic, or that that percentage of business owners that are hopeful versus optimistic, I don't think we can paint it with that broad brush, because truly, it comes down to you as the human, and how you live your life, how you work towards those goals, and that kind of thing.
Ashley Cox 12:26
So you can be a real optimistic business owner and not be taken any of the right actions to move yourself forward.
Lindsay Recknell 12:33
Totally right, you could be sitting back waiting for the customers to walk in the door.
Ashley Cox 12:37
So in in our world here, at Sprout HR, a business owner might post a job, and then be really optimistic that people are just going to fall in their lap. But there's actually things that they have to do. There's strategies that they implement, there are, you know, tactics that we use, there's outreach that has to be done, there are a lot of moving pieces and put pieces of the puzzle that will kind of bring hope alive. Is that would that be correct?
Lindsay Recknell 13:07
Totally. Absolutely. Whether it's engaging somebody like you, whether it's just writing the job posting, whether it's researching where to make the job posting, you need to do the things to let people know that you're open for business.
Ashley Cox 13:19
Yes, yes. And I think that that applies to all areas of business. And I think we can look back and say, Oh, when I took these actions, these great, wonderful things happened. And when I sat back, and I didn't take any action, no wonder I felt hopeless. Right. So what happens when we lose our sense of hope?
Lindsay Recknell 13:39
Yeah. Can I start by suggesting that I believe we all have hope? Oh, we are there's again, disagreements or lots of opinions in the literature in the scientific literature to suggest whether hope is genetic, you know, that whole nurture versus nature argument, however, I believe that we all have a level of hope. We think about a hope level as a scale. All of our baselines are a bit different. So hope can be taught, you can grow your hope. But where you start on your hope level is going to be different for all of us. And some of us just may have be, like I say, maybe we are biologically wired for more hope. Maybe some of us have had life search circumstances that have challenged our hope. And so maybe our baseline is a little bit lower. But we all have a scale. It's just where on that scale, we start and grow from there, I think is different. So I just wanted to call that out. Because I think sometimes we think well, I have no hope. And I don't ever think that hope is totally gone. I think that hope is just lost sometimes that that light is very, very dim. But it can get bigger by taking some of the actions that we're talking about and doing some of the things that we're talking about. And so if you feel like You are hopeless, you don't have to stay in that place.
Lindsay Recknell 15:04
Some of the things that you can do as an individual, like, let's let's think about you listener as an individual, when we're thinking about growing, growing your own personal hope, because it is very personal to all of us. Start where you're at start from small place. So let's say you are feeling so hopeless, and you are feeling like you cannot get out of bed today. Well, maybe you start by wiggling your toes, something so small, just wiggle your toes. And then maybe eventually you get up to knee knocking. And then maybe you get up to heat hip shaking, and eventually you might be in the shower. But it might take a bit, but that's okay. Because if you can wiggle your toes, that gives you the hope that your future will be better than today, because you've got the confidence, you've taken the action. And now you've got the confidence to build on the toe wiggling, you know, toggling toe wiggling was possible. So maybe me knocking as possible next, right? It doesn't have to be these big monster actions. And in fact, science will tell us that it's the progress along the path to the goal. That's the most important thing that often goals are so far in the future, or they're so big and hairy and audacious and nebulous, that they're actually demotivated, and they have the exact opposite effect of what we want them to have, then. So if we set our goal, but then focus on the progress towards that goal, that's going to raise our hope levels.
Ashley Cox 16:33
I love this whole conversation, because it does seem like when you lose or misplace, perhaps your hope it can feel like a completely hopeless situation. Because you're, you're comparing today to your best hope, self, right. And so we don't usually compare our worst day to our next to worst day, right, we compare our worst day to our very best day. And that feels like you said, like, it's a huge, cavernous gap, it kind of reminds me of the, the the graphic image of the man that standing at the bottom of the ladder, and one ladder has like small, tiny, tiny steps. And he's like, Dude, I can move all the way up the ladder. But on the other ladder, the steps are so wide that the man is reaching all the way up to the top and still can't reach the very first step. And so that's where I kind of feel like it's adding some visual imagery to what you're talking about. It's reaching for that first possibility, right, that first opportunity to just experience even the smallest igniting of hope.
Lindsay Recknell 17:41
Yeah, and it's the other image that comes to mind, as you probably seen a figure on a mountain. And maybe that figures about 1/3 up the mountain and the looking up to the top of the mountain is still two thirds away. And it feels super daunting. But if we just turn around and see how far we've come already, that feels hopeful as well. I think it's a it's a change in perspective, for sure. It's a change in perspective. As a starting place, obviously, I'm not a mental health expert. I'm not a psychologist, but so you definitely need to take all of the your own personal situation and your own chemical and biological makeup into consideration here. But all the science in this field has shown that physical outcomes are are improved. mental emotional outcomes are improved when you can continue to raise your levels of hope by doing things like focusing on those small steps.
Ashley Cox 18:41
Oh, I love that. And I think it's something that you mentioned when your website is talking about the difference between mental illness and mental well being. And I feel like this would be a perfect time to kind of explore that a little bit more, because I think these are two more terms that are either used interchangeably or confused or, you know, used maybe inappropriately or in the wrong context. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on the difference between mental illness and mental well being and where hope fits into those areas.
Lindsay Recknell 19:13
Yeah, you bet. So the, I would say, besides sharing hopes PR problem. The other thing that I am so passionate about is raising mental health, maturity through language and through the use of words and comprehension. Because so often when we don't know how to say what's important to us, or how to approach someone or how, how to have a conversation or receive a conversation, we often just won't say anything at all. And so I am super passionate about helping to reduce some of the stigma of language. So I love that you asked that question.
Lindsay Recknell 19:51
Most often when I speak to leaders as an example and they say to me and I want to I want to bring in workplace mental health programming, and they say, We don't have mental health in our organization. And I say, or you do, because you have humans there. And their mental health is how they're feeling on the inside. You know, if physical health is your broken leg, mental health is you're not feeling yourself today day. People often confuse mental health and mental wellness. And with mental illness, mental illness, or your diagnosable mental conditions, you know, scientifically supported the the DSM five, the diagnostic to Statistical Manual, which is a guide that psychiatrists and psychologists will use to diagnose mental illness. That is, that is a thing. Mental illness is a piece of our mental well being of our mental health. And they are again, like hope and optimism, they're not mutually exclusive, because if you have a diagnosed mental illness, like schizophrenia, or bipolar or OCD, you can still feel mentally well, right, you've done your therapy, you're on your medication, whatever it is, that helps you to feel well, you, you get to feel that way. Even if you have a diagnosed mental illness. The same. The flip side of that is also true. If you aren't feeling yourself today doesn't mean that you have a diagnosed mental illness, it just means that your mental health isn't where you you'd like it to be today. And so I think it's really important that leaders recognize that for sure, you probably do have mental illness, that showing up in your organization that you may, you may or may not be aware of. There's you know, lots of legalities, we can talk about there. But for sure, 100% you have mental health in your organization, because you have humans, in your organization.
Ashley Cox 21:49
I so appreciate you bringing awareness and light to this because I do think that it is something that in recent years, mental health and mental well being and mental awareness, have grown. And we have a long way to go and truly supporting the people that are working in our businesses and our companies, whether you have a team of one, where you have a team of 100,000 you have mental health in your business, and it's so important to educate ourselves, you know, through conversations like this through reading through understanding how humans show up in this world. Because I think, you know, there's an opportunity here for us all, as business owners to foster a greater sense of hope, with and in conjunction with and amongst our team. So I'd love to hear some ways that our listeners could start to foster a greater sense of hope. And, and I know that you have a really fantastic service, self awareness superhero is that not so cool sounding? I wish I wish I had something that sounded that cool. But I would love to hear more about how people can how these leaders can really foster that sense of hope and ways that they can do that.
Lindsay Recknell 23:08
So I feel like for a leader, so again, if I'm speaking to you listener, as a leader, a lot of our hope comes from our confidence, especially in the mental health space. It's complicated stuff. And I really feel like from a generation perspective, we haven't been taught, present day leaders really haven't been taught the mental health skills, they need to navigate some of this stuff in the workplace. Because we were taught by baby boomers, and, you know, older Gen Xers who were taught by their leaders, because those generations absolutely didn't talk about hope in the workplace as an example. And so if you feel like you're struggling with these concepts, and you don't know what to say, or how to say it, or you find you're saying it incorrectly, that might feel quite hopeless, because your confidence would be would be reduced. And so give yourself some grace, have a little compassion for yourself, because you literally weren't taught this stuff. But you're here having these conversations, meeting with people like Ashley, who will teach you this kind of thing. And so I think that recognition, first off, I think is a really important, it goes a long way to building hope in the workplace is that authentic authenticity, that integrity to say, you know, I'm not going to get this right all the time. But here's where I'm trying to get to and I appreciate your help and support along the way.
Ashley Cox 24:36
I fully cosign everything that Lindsay just said. I think it's so important to start with the reframe the understanding that we may not have the skills that we need to engage in this right now because of where we've been and what we've been exposed to and our societal, you know, conditionings and all of the things that come along with being human in this world and And I think that it's so important to just take a step back and say, Okay, let's not layer on more guilt and shame and, you know, frustration and whatever else that we might be piling on and saying, Okay, I may not know everything I need to know, today, or maybe ever, and that's okay. But where can I start. And I think listening to today's conversation and just opening your mind to the possibilities of creating hope within yourself and within your team can can be available for you.
Lindsay Recknell 25:32
I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that that's where we can take the next level is increasing hope or hope levels within an organization, because if you as a leader, are showing yourself, compassion, and grace, and forgiveness and all of those good things, and then your team sees you modeling that behavior out loud, they're going to feel like they also have the permission to recognize this in themselves and do some self forgiveness in themselves. And that's really what self awareness superhero is all about is helping you and your team recognize that you don't all think the same, that you are all beautiful humans who bring your own lived experience, you are all looking at the reality of your workplace of your team, through that lens of your own lived experience. And so the self awareness piece is, what is that lens? I'm looking through? What? What history am I bringing what, what is showing up in my behavior that's misaligned to my talk, or my values, or how I really want to show up. So it's that again, it just comes back down to that self awareness piece. And once we, again, have the language to explain to other people, why we are the way we are and who we want to be in the future. Doesn't that just feel so hopeful?
Ashley Cox 26:51
Oh, my gosh, so hopeful. And I honestly think, in my work, so much of what we have, you know, conversations around in my one on one work with clients with my group program is just not having a common language with which to understand what we are talking about. And I think that makes so much sense for hope, to have its own language for us to be able to explore it and understand it and integrate it into our lives, and you hit the nail on the head, Lindsay with modeling that behavior. That's such an important part of our role as leaders, if we are seeing behaviors in our work organization that we're, as we that we deem undesirable, we have to look at what we're doing as leaders. And if you have people in your company who are not, you know, showing or demonstrating the kind of hope that you would want for them, it's probably time to take a look in the mirror. And we're probably not demonstrating the level of hope that we could be for our team. And along with that, the grace, the compassion, the empathy, the the willingness to say, I'm not getting this right. Or I might not always get it right. But I'm trying. And I'm I'm willing to try. And I think sometimes just a leader who is willing to try and willing to be open minded, is the leader that's respected the most.
Lindsay Recknell 28:16
100% Agree 100% Agree, because we we look up to the models and mentors in our lives. And when we see them being vulnerable and true and honest. It just yeah, it just gives us the permission that feels like we can also be that way in, in these situations in these environments.
Ashley Cox 28:33
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Lindsey, it is time for our final and favorite segment of the whole show. And that's imagine the impact where we get to envision what it would look like to take action today. And since you talk a lot about hope, motivating action, I feel like this is like right up your alley. So I'd love for you to help paint the vision for our listeners of what kind of impact they could create in their businesses, with their teams and in the world with one key thought or takeaway from today's conversation.
Lindsay Recknell 29:10
So hope is contagious. I fully believe that hope is contagious. And so if you are not feeling so hopeful today. Go and find somebody who is going and borrow from somebody else's hope because one day you're going to be feeling super hopeful and you'll be able to pay that forward for somebody else. There is an activity that we do in my in one of my workshops. I call it future casting and we create this vision and we experience what it looks like when we accomplish a dream. What it feels like what it smells like who's with us what it doors it opens for us. All of this all of these beautiful, wonderful things. And that visioning is actually happening in our mind in the limbic system in our brain. It's cognitively going on in their head And at the end of that, I asked the folks to envision taking that dream, what it looks like feels like smells like. And literally putting it in a bottle like you know a letter in a bottle with the cork on top, putting that cork on top and then putting that bottle on a shelf. Because then when you're not feeling so hopeful, you can take that vision, take that bottle down off the shelf, pop up that cork and get that dream back and be right back in that moment of what it felt like and smoke like and look like and all of those good things. Because hope is contagious. And your mind cannot distinguish real memories from fake ones. And so if you do that good visioning activity, you can absolutely raise your hope levels in the moment by taking that bottle off the shelf.
Ashley Cox 30:48
Oh my gosh, fill your bottles with hope. And then take it down when you need a little help boost. I love it so much. Thank you so much, Lindsay. What an amazing conversation. I had absolutely no doubt that it would be. But thank you for coming and sharing your brilliance with the impact ripple audience. So what is the best place for folks to connect with you and learn more about the work that you do?
Lindsay Recknell 31:11
Well, this has been such a pleasure. You're an excellent podcast host. I love how you ask great questions and good feedback questions. So thank you for allowing me to be here and have this great conversation with you. I have two places you can get a hold of me expert in hope.com to learn all about science, hope and positive psychology. And then the work that I do with organizations like like your listeners is paradigm corporate wellness.com. And I'm sure you will link to all those places.
Ashley Cox 31:39
We will put them all in the show notes for you because we know that's a mouthful. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Lindsay. I'm so excited for listeners to connect with you more follow you on all the social channels that you're hanging out on. And really engage more with your work because I am excited about a more hopeful world and a more hopeful business for all of our listeners.
Lindsay Recknell 32:03
Thanks so much. Such a pleasure. Thank you so so much.
